Talk:Algebra I/Content

Notes: This book survived a delete request on English Wikibooks (meaning they will keep a fork of the material there). Also, this book was brought here from there based on a trans-wiki request by Ezra Katz.

From EWB

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Welcome Teachers!

We live in very exciting times. Many math teachers have wished that they could make changes to, or contribute to, the math book they use. A project like this makes that possible, with the added benefit of providing our expert help to people in need across the world. How cool is that!?!--HSTutorials 16:18, 20 July 2006 (UTC)

Moving this Wikibook to The Simple English Wikibooks Project

I am proposing to move this whole Wikibook to the Simple English Wikibooks project. This is not an inditment of the content here, but instead a way to showcase this content and allow other contributors who want to work with Simple English content to keep it all together.

BTW, I'm even willing to do the actual page moves and get everything moved over, and I also see no problem with a "bookshelf" here on the regular English Wikibooks to have links to the Simple English content. This is mainly a proposal to move this content so we don't have mixed efforts, and to recognize that there already is an independent Simple English Wikibooks project. If there is an objection to doing this, I would like to see a reasonable argument for keeping it with en.wikibooks other than exposure to more readers and contributors. --Rob Horning 18:27, 17 July 2006 (UTC)

I have to trust other people's judgement on this issue. I'm hoping that the main contributors will be my fellow math teachers, and starting this fall I'm planning to present at as many math teaching forums as I can to show my fellow teachers how to contribute to the wiki. It seems to me that the input of people focused on writing in simple English would be much more valuable to us than people who are focused on writing about mathematics, since math is already our forté.

I do want to keep the name as OLPC - Algebra 1 in Simple English because the One Laptop Per Child Project would be why these teachers would be willing to contribute to the book. --HSTutorials 20:43, 17 July 2006 (UTC)

As has been pointed out by some Simple English proponents, this is an internationally recognized "subset" of the English language and by using the term "Simple English", you are putting some specific implications into the name of this book. Is this what you intended when creating this book, or were you simply trying to make a textbook that would use basic English grammar? I know that even among users of Simple English (as a dialect of English) there can be considerable room for discussion over what that really means, but I mainly wanted you to be aware of the fact that Simple English Wikibooks does exist.

As far as keeping the name OLPC, is this going to be an "official" sub-project of the One Laptop Per Child Project? There isn't anything specifically wrong about that provided you also maintain Wikibooks policies and standards like NPOV principles and allow non-OLPC participants to make changes to the content. If this hasn't been sanctioned by the OLPC, I would be wary about implying an endorsement from that group when it hasn't been given. Throwing the name "OLPC" into the title would be an inappropriate use of a trademark if the OLPC folks havn't given explicit permission to use their trademark in this manner. --Rob Horning 11:44, 19 July 2006 (UTC)

This project is in cooperation with OLPC. Please read http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Electronic_textbook_projects for more information.--HSTutorials 15:57, 20 July 2006 (UTC)

Fantastic! - this is exactly what I was trying to see, and I'm not trying to discourage this. I've just seen some individuals acting as though they had permission for similar things. I have, however, seen some other groups do this, so I was trying to give you the benefit of the doubt. --Rob Horning 04:39, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

I think you're right; this should part of the Simple English Wikibooks Project. I don't know how to move it, though. Can someone give me some guidance, or move it for me? I also need to know if links I've created outside wiki will still work, or do I have to change them to the new address? Thanks,--HSTutorials 03:52, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

I'll try to help you out on this one. Give me about 48 hours, and I'll get the whole thing moved over to the Simple English Wikibooks. --Rob Horning 04:39, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for your help, Rob.--HSTutorials 18:56, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

Turn Chapter 1, Lesson 1 into an introduction?

As it is written now, Chapter 1, Lesson 1 is less of a lesson than an introduction to the Algebra 1 in Simple English project. It does not conform to the layout used in other lessons of the wikibook. Since it is not really a lesson so much as an introduction, maybe we should move its text into a seperate introduction page, and then shift all of the lessons in Chapter 1 up one lesson number? What are your thoughts?

You're absolutely right that it's not really a lesson. I'm going to do just that! Thanks.--HSTutorials 21:49, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

please dlete this... i forget my logg in info. thanks

Excessive

This thing goes into LINEAR ALGEBRA topics in chapter 7. Calling it a high school textbook is nuts, some of this material is 200-level college. Still, it's nice to have all the information rolled together coherently.

Solving simple systems of equations through linear combinations really is high school level. A 200 level college class in linear algebra covers MUCH more detail, and covers matricies.

If you look through most high school textbooks you'll find sections on linear combinations. It is covered in both Algebra textbooks that I use in my classroom. Your teacher may have had to skip that due to time constraints, but it supposed to be there. One of the terrific things about this teaching situation is that we do not have to worry about time constraints at all, and we can simply make sure that the course covers everything that is considered Algebra 1. --HSTutorials 04:54, 11 November 2006 (UTC)

Practice problems

Rather than having the answer in parentheses immediately after the problem, why not have the answers on a seperate page with a 'Click here to see answers' link under the list of questions? --82.47.199.13 16:20, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

Your idea would be a really good one if this was the final destination of this wikibook. However, the content in this wiki-textbook is going to be turned into a completely interactive tutorial website. It is easier for the math teachers who are contributing to this project to have the answers to the problems immediately following, because it allows us to make sure that the problems are progressing with the correct levels of difficulty.--HSTutorials 05:10, 2 December 2006 (UTC)

Welcome CMC North participants

It was wonderful to meet you all. Be sure to create an account, log in every time you contribute, and sign any discussion contributions you make.

Basic English or Simple English?

Hi all, I just came across this project and am eager to get involved. I made some aggressive edits to the first couple pages using Ogden's Basic English. I noticed that what has been written so far hasn't stayed close to 850 word list. Personally I feel the fewer words the better. I am curious as to what direction people think this book should take. Should the language be in the style of the Simple English Wikipedia, or should it be more limited?--Ezrakatz 02:11, 26 December 2006 (UTC)

I agree with you; the fewer words, the better. Please keep up the aggressive editing! There have been many entries from people who don't understand the Basic English/Simple English concept. I have put in a request to have this moved to the Simple English Wikibooks, but that hasn't happened yet.--HSTutorials 15:59, 28 January 2007 (UTC)

Move to delete "Using Matricies to Solve Linear Systems"

Hi, I have started a vote for deletion of the page Using Matricies to Solve Linear Systems for the reasons I have mentioned on the Votes for deletion page.

Also, I didn´t want to make a separate topic for this, how are we supposed to put questions for the tests if the questions are formatted like

"Evaluate the following expressions if a=4, b=3, c=2?" Do we have to put this in each question or can we put them under a general heading.

I look forward to working on this great project. Thylacine222 04:46, 6 January 2007 (UTC)

I've closed the VfD discussion, and instead marked the page as a speedy deletion barring discussion here. I dont think that page belongs in this book, and so it should be deleted. --Whiteknight (talk) (projects) 20:48, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

I don't want matricies to be a distraction. They are included in some algebra textbooks (including mine as a 9th grader in Texas in the 70's), but not in others. Let's do whatever will keep our attention focused on creating content for our students. If that means we drop matricies, fine.--HSTutorials 16:03, 28 January 2007 (UTC)

Pre-Algebra Text

I have been having trouble getting a good start on writing this text because of all the backtracking needed to explain Pre-Algebra terms and ideas. I don't want to detract from this project, but in order for it to succeed I feel it is necessary to create a Pre-Algebra text that sets up the vocabulary needed for a non-native speaker to understand Algebra. This way the text can start with variables, expressions, and equations and not be bogged down by review.

Here is a link to the new project simple:Numbers. I give more details about the idea for the book there. --Ezrakatz 20:09, 25 February 2007 (UTC)

Moving Again

I've been talking with an admin over at Simple English Wikibooks and he is prepared to move this book. SE Wikibooks is a more appropriate venue for this book. Any comments are welcome. --Ezra Katz 00:37, 5 July 2007 (UTC)

If they can talk with the Wikimedia developer team to get the page import feature going on the Simple English Wikibooks, I don't see any other problems. You have to explicitly note what projects you want the ability to import pages from. I agree this belongs on the Simple English Wikibooks as well. As soon as the move is complete, please mark at least this main page of this Wikibook with {{delete}} to let the admins on en.wikibooks know that it is safe for us to delete the content without losing any of the edit history. --Rob Horning 04:55, 5 July 2007 (UTC)

Moving and simple English

I am the admin that Ezra Katz talked to, and I will be performing the move. Sorry I didn't get things rolling earlier when it was first decided, but I didn't know how it worked and I was under the impression that someone else was going to do it. I'll make sure to put the tag on this module when I've completed the move. Having to move talk pages separately is kind of a pain. It would be nice to at least have the option of automation there.

As far as simple English, I must say that I'm in friendly disagreement with Rob on this one. Yes, some people on SE Wikipedia think it is more or less an "official" subset. I am not one of them. Simple English in my opinion is just a simplified version of English, with significantly reduced vocabulary. There is nothing particularly official about it. We happen to try to follow the BE850 more or less, but if another wordlist seems more or equally useful (like we've discovered on SE Wiktionary), we aren't particularly tied to that one. The term "simple English" has no specific meaning outside of SE wikiprojects as far as I know, and it is only incidentally similar to Basic English. The idea is simply to make a group of projects for people who don't know English well (for whatever reason: non-native speaker, learning disabilities, etc.) but who want to use English, not a different language like their native tongue (in the case of non-native speakers). On SEWP, another goal is to create easier articles to ease translations into other languages. We'll be happy to receive help on all the SE projects from anyone interested in those goals, including those who have worked on this book in the past. If someone would like to vote regarding the proposed closure of SEWQ, see here. I personally think we should create an SE Wikisource (which would have simple versions of all the classics for anyone who doesn't know English well), an SE Wikinews (which would provide the news for those who don't know English well), and SE translations on meta, commons, etc. --Cromwellt|talk|contribs 02:24, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

I have been putting a delete tag on each page I import. Would it be better to wait and just put the tag on the main page? The problem I see is that others might edit here after I've imported a page. What is the general rule? --Cromwellt|talk|contribs 01:36, 16 August 2007 (UTC)

The general rule is to only add the delete template to the main page, but no real discussion or consensus was reached regarding its deletion so it would be better to use {{vfd}} and bring it up on WB:VFD for discussion. Just because its been copied elsewhere doesn't mean it has to be deleted from English Wikibooks and people here may object to its deletion. --darklama 17:08, 17 August 2007 (UTC)

Actually, there has been discussion on this very page, and no one objected to the move at all. It actually belongs on the other project, though this project may have a link if that's what they decide. Either way, I'll quit putting delete templates on each page and just wait until I've imported it all to put a delete template on the main page. I just hope that no good-faith edits are made here after I've imported because those will be lost. Oh well. --Cromwellt|talk|contribs 17:15, 17 August 2007 (UTC)

I see a discussion to move this to simple english did take place on this page, but thats different from deleting it. One administrator has already voiced objection to its deletion on WB:AN. There have been cases where books have forked from the majority of current contributors deciding to continue the book elsewhere, but where the book continued to remain here to be developed by those who disagreed with the move. Its perfectly fine for both to co-exist. --darklama 17:55, 17 August 2007 (UTC)

From here

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Import

The import is now complete, though EWB decided to keep a fork of the content here. We can all get to work on this now! --Cromwellt|talk|contribs 18:50, 5 September 2007 (UTC)